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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2.3l twin scroll turbo 4-cyl dir. inject , all wheel drive. More power means wider track, = new sheet metal. It SHOULD be aluminum to make the statement they want, or the car will be a fat awkward porker. Ford will be guinea-pigging an all new system on their more well-heeled hatch fanatics. It might have dry sump, likely electronic transmission, definitely heavier (unless lots of alu is used). Loses cabin foot room and trunk space due to AWD and so less practical (fine for this purpose). Option for roll cage? I hope it destroys the WRX. It should at what it's likely to cost, (looking at $40-50k?) or almost Corvette money. At least it will be rare enough to be a true collectors cars like the GT. I hope it's as desirable.
 

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Ford is unlikely to make an all Aluminum Focus any time soon as they are still just barely getting an Aluminum body for the body on frame F150 for 2015.

The prototype MK2 RS with AWD was a porker and less fun than the then current ST which was less powerful. I imagine that ratio hasn't changed.

They also don't appear interested in making a performance AWD system.
 

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Might see it utilize Aluminum parts like a hood, or trunk or doors in an effort to shave weight.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't think the frame will be aluminum, of course. But some other parts maybe. The car will be heavier than the ST otherwise. Sure, 100HP more makes it faster, but not really special. The rumor is an all new AWD system. Ford uses performance specialty (expensive) models partly for halo effect, but also to test technology on the back of more wealthy enthusiasts. So the RS is perfect. With the same engine as the Mustang, and AWD it will be about as fast and cost a lot more. The only way buyers would pay for a really expensive car with a similar engine to a cheaper one, is if it's special. AWD makes it kind of special. Aluminum panels make it much more special. Just my hunch. They're going to want it to blow up the WRX. What will it take to do that?
 

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Why would the AWD system loose boot space and front foot space? Sure it will add weight but I doubt anyone would notice the weight difference seeing a large chunk of it will be at the back of the car. The old 5pot in the previous ST/RS felt like an anvil was upfront compared to the 4pot in the ST now, that is a difference you can easily feel.

A RS is more than the sum of its parts and most people hankering after one will care little that the engine is shared with the mustang. It wont take much to better the WRX (I'm assuming STI), however better is of course very subjective. The STI is the last place ford should be looking when it comes what the next focus RS should be competing against IMO. As for what AWD system it will use, I would imagine that all depends on what the bean-counters will allow but hopefully they pick the active variety of the GKN shelf.

As to if it will be special enough only time will tell, but for me I just want another 'full fat' RS and based on all the info dotted around this site it looks like finally after nearly 20 years another one is about to come along :), the only problem this will be the first RS where I'll have to put up with dealers and market adjustment :(.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The car is already heavy. bigger engine and AWD is going to add noticeable weight. I assumed that it would have a wider track, and therefore wider fenders. That's a bit more weight. (And less interior floor space due to the AWD) But if those fenders were aluminum instead, plus the hood and hatchback, it might offset somewhat. My thinking is that Ford has committed to ensuring that dealers can repair the new F150 just as easily as any steel vehicle. Lots of investment in machinery for manufacture and repair of aluminum. Lightweight is going to be a big deal by the next set of MPG standards. So they're likely to want to leverage the head start they're getting with the F150. Ford and Jaguar have made a huge splash with the Stingray and F-Type. The new Mustang is going to get some press, certainly. But they have no halo car. So an aluminum paneled beast is a way to do that. The RS has to be really really special. It could be made lighter than the current car, with AWD and 350HP. That goes from sweet, to Holy Shit. I'm not describing my fantasy car or anything, just trying to look at the moves Ford have made and take a little creative guess at what they could do. Then again, people predicted the new WRX was going to be a huge change, when Subaru announced it was to be a separate beast completely from the Impreza. Instead we got sensible, mild improvements.
 

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Re pricing against Mustang, when I priced a 2015 Mustang, they were around 36k for a decently equipped one and went up from there. Don't expect the RS to be more expensive (minis dealer gouging). It will be a limited production run, with few options, likely in neighborhood of 36/38k

Given that my wife's Mini countryman is in that range, it's not a king's ransomed for an RS
 

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Is the RS gonna be designed to run off road ...doesnt sound like it will be as fun to drive on pavement as the current ST based on what has been described here.
 

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Is the RS gonna be designed to run off road ...doesnt sound like it will be as fun to drive on pavement as the current ST based on what has been described here.
I've been tracking this car closely and there is no fear that its designed for off road any more that a WRX is.

One thing we know, and experienced if you have autocrossed or tracked the ST, without AWD, it's very competitive. Mine best AWD cars on a regular basis. With the ST itself as a benchmark, Ford has to offer something better, if they don't, what's the point.

My prediction, those of us here who can afford to make the upgrade will.
 

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I've been tracking this car closely and there is no fear that its designed for off road any more that a WRX is.

One thing we know, and experienced if you have autocrossed or tracked the ST, without AWD, it's very competitive. Mine best AWD cars on a regular basis. With the ST itself as a benchmark, Ford has to offer something better, if they don't, what's the point.

My prediction, those of us here who can afford to make the upgrade will.
I probably wouldnt upgrade even if i could afford to unless i planned a lot of off road driving. As you say ..you can blow away a lot of awd vehicles with the ST. Running in mud thats a different story but for an asphalt performance car i dont see the advantage to justify the cost increase and the added weight. For racers I'm sure it will be sweet.
 

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I probably wouldnt upgrade even if i could afford to unless i planned a lot of off road driving. As you say ..you can blow away a lot of awd vehicles with the ST. Running in mud thats a different story but for an asphalt performance car i dont see the advantage to justify the cost increase and the added weight. For racers I'm sure it will be sweet.
I have no idea why you are so insistent on talking about offroad driving with respect to the RS. Very few hot hatches (if any) have ever been considered for offroad duty without significant rally-inspired modifications. There is absolutely zero evidence that the RS is being prepped for that kind of application.
 

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I have no idea why you are so insistent on talking about offroad driving with respect to the RS. Very few hot hatches (if any) have ever been considered for offroad duty without significant rally-inspired modifications. There is absolutely zero evidence that the RS is being prepped for that kind of application.
Not insisting anything really other than i am not willing to pay more than 30k for a fwd hatch just to go a little faster. Especially when others have documented that the ST is plenty fast to beat a lot of awd vehicles. But i certainly have no objection to those who do.
 

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Not insisting anything really other than i am not willing to pay more than 30k for a fwd hatch just to go a little faster. Especially when others have documented that the ST is plenty fast to beat a lot of awd vehicles. But i certainly have no objection to those who do.
It's pretty much a given now that the RS will be AWD, so the FWD argument is kinda pointless... I doubt you'd get many takers for a $35K FWD hatch when the STi is available (and the hatch is apparently in the works again), so it would be silly for Ford at this point to make the RS FWD unless they planned on pricing it right on top of the ST - in which case why not just make an ST performance pack and call it good?

If the rumors are true, the RS is going to be an altogether different beast from the ST. If you're interested in, quote, "beating" other hatches, the ST will only get you so far. Yes, it's more than competent against the WRX (in most applications, anyways) and it will probably even hold its own against the 6-th gen Golf R (so that makes it two, which isn't anyone's definition of "many", unless you count the altogether irrelevant Ralliart), but put it up against the crop of the next-level performance compacts and it hits a ceiling. Assuming the speculated specs are accurate, the RS will come in right on top of the new Golf R, as well as the STi and the outgoing Evo - and it ought to give the Merc CLA45 a run for its money as well.

All those cars have one thing in common - they have AWD, as well as considerably more power than the ST and its ilk. Not one of them was ever considered for off-road duty, so when you asked once and then repeated again your concerns about the RS being, for whatever reason, only worth upgrading to go off road, that caught me by surprise. That's just not the purpose of a hot hatch - at all. Unless, of course, you REALLY go back to its roots and take it rallying - but nothing in the way the RS is described as being designed even so much as hints at off-road use. Just so you understand, this is the statement I took issue with as it makes no sense at all:
I probably wouldnt upgrade even if i could afford to unless i planned a lot of off road driving.
If that's your plan, save the cash and buy a Wrangler.
 

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According to Capito, director of the Focus RS project, the original design brief was for the Focus to be four-wheel-drive. However, when he got the chance to drive the first 280bhp prototype he was not impressed. The additional 150kg of the all-wheel-drive transmission blunted the performance of the car, and in Capito’s opinion it didn’t feel special enough to carry the ‘RS’ badge.
It was at this point, early in the project, that the decision was made to go for front-wheel-drive and find a method of taming the torque-steer that would be a by-product of the enormous torque generated by the 2.5-litre engine. This led to the design of the RevoKnuckle suspension design, which helps improve traction by ensuring that the outside wheel always has negative camber when lock is applied.
Why Was Focus RS FWD, Not 4WD?

No previous RS was AWD, though it could change, it would have to have much more power than the ST to compensate for the large weight increase that comes with an AWD system. That also assumes that they would make a bespoke performance based AWD system instead of retrofitting the existing C-car (Escape/Kuga) AWD system that is not meant for performance at all. Why make a one off AWD system for one car that you can't charge much more than the FWD ST either?

I have strong doubts about an AWD RS until the date such info is available directly from media.ford.com and to build/ price on ford.com but that's because it's always been the rumor but never the truth since the MK1 RS.
 

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Why Was Focus RS FWD, Not 4WD?

No previous RS was AWD, though it could change, it would have to have much more power than the ST to compensate for the large weight increase that comes with an AWD system. That also assumes that they would make a bespoke performance based AWD system instead of retrofitting the existing C-car (Escape/Kuga) AWD system that is not meant for performance at all. Why make a one off AWD system for one car that you can't charge much more than the FWD ST either?

I have strong doubts about an AWD RS until the date such info is available directly from media.ford.com and to build/ price on ford.com but that's because it's always been the rumor but never the truth since the MK1 RS.
Chuckle...
 

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Chuckle...
Not sure what there is to chuckle about. The 2.0 L EcoBoost Escape AWD is 148 lbs heavier than the FWD model (3769 lbs v.s. 3621 lbs). The 1.6 L EcoBoost AWD is 169 lbs heavier than the FWD version also (3684 lbs for AWD v.s. 3515 lbs for FWD).

Using the 2.0 L EcoBoost figure for the weight increase over an ST just based on AWD would go from 3223 lbs to 3371 lbs before the heavier engine which if the 2.0 and 2.3L EcoBoost MK-Cs are similarly equipped with AWD is at least an extra 23 lbs

Lincoln MK-C 2.0 L EcoBoost AWD weighs 3963 lbs, and the 2.3L is 3989 lbs.

Assuming that it's only 26 more lbs for the engine, the engine + AWD if using the current system they have that fits under the C1 chassis would weigh 174-195 lb more than an ST, which is like carrying a moderately heavy passenger all the time.

3223+148+26 lbs =3397 lbs or 1.06 times as much as the current car based on this.

Could they offset some of this through the use of increased lightweight materials? Sure, but at what cost.
 

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Why Was Focus RS FWD, Not 4WD?

No previous RS was AWD, though it could change, it would have to have much more power than the ST to compensate for the large weight increase that comes with an AWD system. That also assumes that they would make a bespoke performance based AWD system instead of retrofitting the existing C-car (Escape/Kuga) AWD system that is not meant for performance at all. Why make a one off AWD system for one car that you can't charge much more than the FWD ST either?

I have strong doubts about an AWD RS until the date such info is available directly from media.ford.com and to build/ price on ford.com but that's because it's always been the rumor but never the truth since the MK1 RS.
How much hp and torque can a fwd handle. Some argue that to get the RS above the 310hp mark with the 2.3 ecoboost engine an AWD system is needed. Its also possible the AWD for the RS would be a prototype for future Ford AWD vehicles.
 

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Not sure what there is to chuckle about.
The simple fact that using the Escape as a proxy to the ST/RS argument is pointless. May as well throw the Explorer in there for good measure.

Of course AWD will weigh more. But we're talking about a power increase above and beyond that of the Mustang's 2.3 EB. So it will more than offset the pork.

Look, you don't have to listen to Shomare and jinstall, but history suggests they will be right about this and so will the rather well-respected sources they are citing.
 

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How much hp and torque can a fwd handle. Some argue that to get the RS above the 310hp mark with the 2.3 ecoboost engine an AWD system is needed. Its also possible the AWD for the RS would be a prototype for future Ford AWD vehicles.
The previous RS500 was around 350 HP at the crank from the factory, and some of the tuned examples are pushing well over this with minimal increase in torque steer.

Focus RS500 - (2010)

 
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