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I struggle to understand how it's possible for the GTI and the ST to be on the same list, given how old the GTI is, and how badly it's crushed by the ST in every driving comparison. Granted, it's the "Focus / Focus ST" and the "Golf / GTI" that made the list, so that probably explains most of it...but...that bit of VW apologism pretty much makes me disregard the entire list.
 

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Even though that's an old platform it's still a really good one. And this isn't just based on one aspect of the car. The Focus ST isn't perfect.


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I guess I'm just surprised to see two cars that compete head to head...both be part of the 10 best cars, by their metrics. Regardless of which is better, it's amazing *both* managed to be in their top ten for scoring. And like I said, I suspect that the majority of their placement is due to their mass market editions.
 

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I disagree that the GTI has gotten "badly crushed" in every test. It actually seems to me that every test acknowledges that the GTI is a great car in its own right, with a level of refinement and maturity that actually make it a better choice for certain buyers.

Plus, the GTI has basically made the 10-Best List every year...
 

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The GTI is a wonderful car there's no doubt about it. It's highly refined and I'd say a more upscale vehicle in a sense that it'll appeal to more luxury oriented persons.. The ST is a more playful car it handles better and just feels racier. Both cars are great in different way.. I do love my ST tho!! Last car was a 07 gti btw.
 

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We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've never been too impressed with the value prop on the GTI, especially now that the ST is available, and I'm certainly not impressed with my sister's 2011 Golf as compared to several other small cars. So it's just going to come down to personal preference.
 

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I do like GTI's... but for some reason i finished ordering a ST!! :p Back in time i used to drive a 88' Sirocco16v and a 00' GTI.
 

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We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've never been too impressed with the value prop on the GTI, especially now that the ST is available, and I'm certainly not impressed with my sister's 2011 Golf as compared to several other small cars. So it's just going to come down to personal preference.
I'm not interested in agreeing or disagreeing - and I'm certainly not defending the GTI - but I'd like to see proof of its getting "badly crushed" in "every" driving comparison.

I'm not a VW apologist or defender (if I were, I'd own a GTI, not an SVT Focus), but I've got to call out false statements when I see them.
 

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Maybe "badly crushed" was an unfair statement. And "every" is the kind of hyperbole that runs rampant on boards like this. But in 5 minutes of looking, I would cite

1) The R&T write up, where the GTI scored some 20+ points less than the ST, and the ST is described as "The new high-performance standard against which any other mass-produced car with a 4-cylinder engine will be judged."
2) Autoblog (2013 Ford Focus ST vs. 2012 Volkswagen GTI), which features statements such as "The meatier, more engaging setup of the Focus ST only amplifies just how weak the Volkswagen is" and "But when it came time to pick the better hot hatch, the Focus ST took our votes without a single doubt. The GTI just couldn't keep up – literally."
3) The Smoking Tire (Everything You Wanted to Know About the 2013 Ford Focus ST | The Smoking Tire), with quotes like "ST all day and twice on Sunday. The GTI is a nice car, but after stepping out of the ST, it feels slow and outdated, especially in the interior and electronics department. A loaded GTI is more expensive than a loaded ST, and not even close to as nice a place to be."

All of those reviews have been cited on this forum, and there are probably more. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the ST has been winning praise over the GTI, even if "badly crushed" isn't correct. Although, cherry picking from the above, I don't think that's a stretch either. And as I said in the thread concerning the Autoblog writeup, it's not a fair fight. The GTI and it's associated platform is getting long in the tooth, while the ST is pratically brand new. So if this was a next gen GTI, I could not be so dismissive.
 

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Can't believe the brz/fr-s made the list. I test drove that thing a few times. What a dog. Nowhere to go with the engine either. 12.5:1 compression ratio. beautiful piece of crap!
 

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Someone (hopefully Subarota or Toyobaru, take your pick) will fit a turbo to one of those BFSRZ things, and then it'll be pretty sick. But for now, I think it's am amazing track car...just a bit down on power. It is pretty light weight, remember. So wouldn't take much and it'll scream.
 

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Cool beans. Have you driven one? there is a major torque dip down low. Cheap stock tires. WORSE MILEAGE with 100 ft/lbs less and 50 hp less if I remember correctly. I think the focus ST beats it in every single category stock for stock and has much more room to go for cheap money.

Don't get me wrong...it's a cool little car but absolutely not a "10 best" in my mind. My Mazdaspeed protege (2003) had similar performance numbers, similar mileage, and was TEN YEARS OLDER.
 

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I haven't flogged one on a track by any means, but I did drive my buddy's FRS a little bit. He traded his E39 M5 for it...which I remember thinking was insane, but it was a gas mileage compromise on his part. The car was fun, but I kind of agree - not quite impressive enough to cost what it costs - his was $27k+ after he paid for dealer installed leather seats.

Which is why I would say...wait for the forced induction version that someone will come up with. I think the platform has promise.
 

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Gotta like how Car And Driver aims their yearly awards more at the everyman, and they're proud of it. Take that, Motor Trend!
 
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