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What is reasonable? 300 - 500 over invoice, sticker. Never bought a limited production run car. Trying to brace myself for Tuesday.
 

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I'm thinking it will be difficult to get dealers to go very far below MSRP if at all with the car being so new. When a car is just sitting on their lot depreciating there is some pressure for them to sell. But when the car doesn't even exist yet there's really not a huge motivation for discounts. Some dealers may know this is a limited production vehicle and try to capitalize on it, all that means though is it is time to take a short drive and find a new dealer.
 

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Very helpful; thanks! And I don't think this is a limited production car; I'm sure they'll build as many as they can sell.
 

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Another thing to keep in mind, these cars aren't coming out of the dealer's regular allocation, so they aren't losing a spot by putting in your order. This is something new, and is to the benefit of both the buyer and dealer. Although some of the dealerships won't see it this way, as they really have no reason to jack up the prices now. They can't just cry supply-and-demand to justify inflated prices. Kudos to Ford...you gained some karma points with that move.
 

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Another thing to keep in mind, these cars aren't coming out of the dealer's regular allocation, so they aren't losing a spot by putting in your order. This is something new, and is to the benefit of both the buyer and dealer. Although some of the dealerships won't see it this way, as they really have no reason to jack up the prices now. They can't just cry supply-and-demand to justify inflated prices. Kudos to Ford...you gained some karma points with that move.
To that point, I asked a dealer how far they are willing to go below MSRP and the salesman stated that he can work with me a little bit, but there is not a lot of mark up from MSRP.
 

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I've done the math... assuming no extra options beyond the regular trim packages (ST1, ST2, ST3), here's how it works out:

ST1:
at invoice, the margin over actual dealer cost is $1244
at MSRP, the margin over actual dealer cost is $2844

ST2:
at invoice, the margin over actual dealer cost is $1368
at MSRP, the margin over actual dealer cost is $3226

ST3:
at invoice, the margin over actual dealer cost is $1477
at MSRP, the margin over actual dealer cost is $3553


Back to the original question about what's reasonable, I don't know. Doing a bit of research and several places say between 2-5% over invoice. That would be between $442 - $1303 depending on the trim level (ST1, ST2, ST3), which does seem reasonable-ish... I'm personally looking for 1-2% over invoice for my ST, and I'm willing to travel to get it. I'd rather drop the extra $500-$700 on a roadtrip than just line a local dealer's pockets, so don't be surprised if you hear about me doing exactly that.
 

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I don't care what is reasonable all I care about is getting the cheapest price possible, I don't care of the dealer loses money on the deal or not. I have been told by my management when I was a technician at a dealership that the majority of a dealerships profits come from the service department not the sales department.
 

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I don't care what is reasonable all I care about is getting the cheapest price possible, I don't care of the dealer loses money on the deal or not. I have been told by my management when I was a technician at a dealership that the majority of a dealerships profits come from the service department not the sales department.
OK, tell that to the sales person who works off of commission.

Some of them are perfectly nice people.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK, tell that to the sales person who works off of commission.

Some of them are perfectly nice people.
I remember when a good friend of mine decided to leave her job and take a job selling cars. I asked her how she would reconcile screwing people out of their hard earned money. Her answer, they are paying for the privilege of having her as their sales person!

I love cars and people too. Often thought about trying car sales but the thought of trying to squeeze uninformed customers would probably result in me not being able to sleep well at night.

My experience has been almost exclusively negative. Sleazy, lying, sneaky salespeople outnumber the perfectly nice ones IMO.
 

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Actually making money doing sales work is not unreasonable. Granted there are quite a few out there that just try to squeeze every penny out of you, but at the end of the day they are people just trying to make a living and feed their family. I don't expect them to sell a car at a loss or with so little margin that after overhead expenses it becomes a loss. Yes MSRP profit is a little fat, but somewhere right above invoice is about the right amount. That still gives them around $2k profit on a normally priced car, which will pay for their overhead, give them a bit of commission, and help pay for the secretaries that answer your phone, the janitors that empty the trash and the building that you were able to use to buy the car.
 

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Actually making money doing sales work is not unreasonable. Granted there are quite a few out there that just try to squeeze every penny out of you, but at the end of the day they are people just trying to make a living and feed their family. I don't expect them to sell a car at a loss or with so little margin that after overhead expenses it becomes a loss. Yes MSRP profit is a little fat, but somewhere right above invoice is about the right amount. That still gives them around $2k profit on a normally priced car, which will pay for their overhead, give them a bit of commission, and help pay for the secretaries that answer your phone, the janitors that empty the trash and the building that you were able to use to buy the car.
Agreed! I have no problem with supporting a dealership that gives me good customer service. I just don't want to be taken for a fool.
 

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The fact is that there is larger profit margins (percentage-wise) on smaller items (like iPhones), and lower profit margins on bigger items (like cars). Negotiating with a dealer is essentially simple math... I know what I wanna pay, they know what they need to make, and any difference between the two is profit. Profiting is their business and their concern, and it is not immoral or bad, nor is maximizing profit. But it is my business and concern as a consumer to minimize their profit margin and get the best deal I can, whether that makes them any profit at all or not. They do their job, I'll do mine. Guess which one I'm rooting for?
 

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The fact that they salesman has to make money isn't that important to me, the salesman isn't working that hard when I come in to order a car all he is doing is filling out some paperwork and negotiating, he doesn't have to walk around the lot and show me 100 cars and talk me into buying one. I am coming in there ready to lay down cash for this particular car that doesn't even come out of their allotment it is free money to the sales person and the dealership. So if he only makes $50 on commission, guess what he just made $50 for working a half hour.
 

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Well, I'll just admit that they ended up getting more from me than I wanted to give, but not as much as they originally wanted. I'm not overly thrilled with my deal, but I'm not miserable about it either.
 

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Well, I'll just admit that they ended up getting more from me than I wanted to give, but not as much as they originally wanted. I'm not overly thrilled with my deal, but I'm not miserable about it either.
I hear that! I'd like to knock at least another $500 off. I did pretty well but there are a few that have done as well or better but their cousins don't own the dealership!
 

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Yeah... I ended up $700 over where I wanted to be (which was essentially their dealer fee), but I'm still under invoice by plenty and I got them to guarantee a couple hundred more for my trade-in than it's worth, so I'm also actually about $500 over where I wanted to be. What I didn't quite get was why their invoice included the $47 fuel charge and $422 advertising add-on... that messed up my numbers a bit and I was left trying to make what I was anticipating work when it just wouldn't.
 
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