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Discussion Starter #1
I searched for this thread on this site...but didn't find it. If it exists mods can close this. Not trying to start a war...some good things were said but the fundamental flaw came down to the braking system that acts as an LSD. And this is coming from people who were setting the best times there.

Edit: fail forgot to link

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f510/i-set-record-straight-focus-st-121482/
 

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Hard to believe that they weren't there with bias and to find fault. Haven't heard the complaint from any of the automotive press.


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I think it's important for us to read what they have to say. I have read all of the comments. There is thread here with the same information. So I will move your post there, but you guys should read what they say.
 

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I will. Point the way.


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Can't get to it. Says I don't have permission to view it.


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Discussion Starter #6
I think it's important for us to read what they have to say. I have read all of the comments. There is thread here with the same information. So I will move your post there, but you guys should read what they say.
Just let me know where.
 

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Ain't gonna happen. Never seen a forum that prevents lurking.


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Discussion Starter #11
Ain't gonna happen. Never seen a forum that prevents lurking.


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Ok, everything we do on that site is to protect members on there. But since you're lazy... the jist is that so far what's known is power is not that prevalent in the first 2 gears (assumed to be ecu controlled) and the e-LSD is not optimal for tracking or autocross. Consensus is that it seems to be a little worse off in the performance department then the ms3, but the fit and finish of the interior are better.
 

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LOL. Not lazy, just pointless. Thanks for the cliff notes.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Also said is that the feeling seems to be fairly neutral, but still understeers at the very limit.
 

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I would say a bit of that understeer could be prevented by a mechanical lsd. It is a good neutral car for someone interested in some timed lapping events... you know, get their feet wet type of thing. But the e-lsd will become a hindrance for the experienced driver.
 

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well they turned in the best time that I know of for that day, but I left at noon
here's a video of Neverlift
 
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I would say a bit of that understeer could be prevented by a mechanical lsd. It is a good neutral car for someone interested in some timed lapping events... you know, get their feet wet type of thing. But the e-lsd will become a hindrance for the experienced driver.
I see your point. In a racing video game I turn all assists off.
 
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Jesus christ those MSF guys have some ludicrous attitudes. It's like nothing could make them happier than to find new ways to call the ST a pile of shit, and it practically pains them to admit the ST's interior might actually be worth the price increase over the MS3.

Seems like the lack of a mechanical LSD is the one grail they're holding onto to justify their ridiculous hate. I mean it's one thing to say Ford did a bad job on the system because they very well could have but for all their MS3 tuning knowledge I'm not sure they understand how an LSD even works. Do they realize Porsche, BMW, Saab all have models using brake-actuated e-diff systems? A mechanical LSD is a pretty cool device but it can't actually give your outside tire any more grip than a e-diff!

I suspect these guys are just used to driving with an LSD and don't know how to drive any other way. That "pull you out of a corner" feeling they love is the diff locking up under power and pulling straight, where with an e-diff you have to steer your way out. Either way you are limited by traction on your outside front wheel and the main point of any LSD system is to prevent wheelspin on the inside, which by all accounts the ST should.

I am interested in seeing how the ST road tests against the MS3 once people can get their hands on them. These MSF guys are convinced the MS3 is 3-4 seconds faster than the ST on a 30 second track just by their feel. That's pretty big, I wonder if they mean stock-for-stock or have their heavily modded cars in their heads? I mean for freaks sake both cars are FWD, have very similar powerbands, similar weights, they're both essentially traction-limited up to at least 40 mph. I mean I can believe the MSF will track better with a harder suspension etc, but 15% better laptimes I think they are stretching their egos.

The real question is, given how obsessed these guys are with engine and track performance (and some of them are decent drivers), why the freak did they all buy FWD hatches?
 

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It's like they are hating on all of us because there's a member here who can't drive stick yet. Yeah, let's demonize the entire ST driver's community because we tried to give him advice instead of laughing him off the site. I mean they are judging an entire population of drivers which doesn't even exist seeing as nobody owns the damn car.

Yeah, nobody here knows how to tune the Ford ST... I can't imagine why?
 
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