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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
ST Motor might be maxed based on article about next RS

Hope this isn't a repost...it has some hints about the ST motor's limits...doesn't bode too well.


Next Ford Focus RS could see 330 horsepower

Here's some fun news. Auto Express reports the next-generation Ford Focus RS could pack as much as 330 horsepower courtesy of a turbocharged 2.3-liter four-cylinder engine. That's a substantial jump over the 247 hp found in the new Focus ST. Matthias Ton, the chief program engineer for global performance cars at Ford, admits the turbo 2.0-liter in the ST is too close to its power ceiling to glean any more grunt without a substantial revision of the turbo and fuel systems. If Ford decides to build another Focus RS, Ton continues, the hotter hatch will bow with a variant of the Ecoboost 2.3-liter.

The last generation RS hit showrooms with 301 horsepower from a turbo 2.5 five-cylinder, though the special-edition RS500 shown above poured 345 horsepower to the front wheels. Auto Express reports that if Ford does build the more aggressive RS, it will likely touch down with a new mechanical limited slip differential to help keep the car pointed straight and handle regular track abuse.
 

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I assume he's saying that from a factory reliability perspective. I have little doubt the engine can be tuned higher than that at the sacrifice of some longevity and reliability.
 

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The current turbo size in relation to the displacement isn't going to get you 330hp efficiently. Doesn't mean it can't be done. Going to a larger turbo on the 2.0 will easily get more power, but will also get you more turbo lag. Ford sized the current turbo to minimize turbo lag. The 2.3 would allow you to run a little bigger turbo without adding lag.
 

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sound to me like he saying new turbo and tune will get you more power which means the motor is good to go.. Its the same thing we ran into when i use to own a ms3 the ko4 could only flow so much before it couldnt do it usually that was about 320whp guys started changing turbos and we finally found some one who could tune the damn thing and they are easily seeing 400whp
 

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I'd be happy with 300 as a daily driver.
 
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It specifically cites the turbo and fuel systems as the barrier to building more power. Anyone with turbo experience knows this is the truth with nearly all turbo cars... upgrade the turbo, upgrade the fuel system (and tune to match) and we'll see plenty of power. I find it funny that they call it a "substantial revision"; I wonder what that means to Ford. I suppose if it meant having to do a complete reanalysis of all the durability, longevity, performance, cost-benefit, serviceablility, etc., then I suppose you could call it substantial. But some aftermarket company will limit their concern to performance and cost-benefit and have upgrades to make more power pretty easily and quickly (if not exactly cheaply).
 

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I'd be happy with 300 as a daily driver.
That's my hope and plan. Having driven a few big power cars, I don't really enjoy it all if I can't get the car to do all the other stuff I want it to be able to do. For me, 300hp that hooks and scoots is better than 450hp going up in smoke (along with yet another set of tires!).
 

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It specifically cites the turbo and fuel systems as the barrier to building more power. Anyone with turbo experience knows this is the truth with nearly all turbo cars... upgrade the turbo, upgrade the fuel system (and tune to match) and we'll see plenty of power. I find it funny that they call it a "substantial revision"; I wonder what that means to Ford. I suppose if it meant having to do a complete reanalysis of all the durability, longevity, performance, cost-benefit, serviceablility, etc., then I suppose you could call it substantial. But some aftermarket company will limit their concern to performance and cost-benefit and have upgrades to make more power pretty easily and quickly (if not exactly cheaply).
Yesssir. The Achilles's heal of my WRX was the barely adequate fuel injectors + fuel pump. Upgrading those, you could safely turn up the boost 5 psi or so. More power requires a new turbo.

In other words, no news here. The real question is how much boost can the block and cast pistons handle. Someone earlier said that the block looked promising.
 

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This is a direct injection system that uses a 22000 PSI injector system. The injectors are mounted in the head, into the combustion chamber.
If you increase the turbo output, you will need to increase the fuel delivery.
You optimize the exhaust you will need to increase the fuel delivery.
Here's where the demon dwells in the freezer:
I dont see this system being able to give out more than +20-30% over stock before its maxed out. I feel very confident that the mechanicals can take that increase easy. SO, how to increase flow?
I bet these injectors are going to cost a CHUNK to mod!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Here's where the demon dwells in the freezer:
I dont see this system being able to give out more than +20-30% over stock before its maxed out. I feel very confident that the mechanicals can take that increase easy. SO, how to increase flow?
I bet these injectors are going to cost a CHUNK to mod!
IDK, maybe add port injection as a secondary?
 

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This is a direct injection system that uses a 22000 PSI injector system. The injectors are mounted in the head, into the combustion chamber.
If you increase the turbo output, you will need to increase the fuel delivery.
You optimize the exhaust you will need to increase the fuel delivery.
Here's where the demon dwells in the freezer:
I dont see this system being able to give out more than +20-30% over stock before its maxed out. I feel very confident that the mechanicals can take that increase easy. SO, how to increase flow?
I bet these injectors are going to cost a CHUNK to mod!
Hey Rev - as FaST mentions in his post above yours, and with your knowledge of the 2.0 EcoBoost block, can the internals handle the stresses that aftermarket power upgrades will undoubtedly place on it. Matthias Ton mentions turbo's and fuel delivery, but I wonder about cams, lifters, main bearings, etc. :?:
 

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Hmm...I do not know very much about the mechanics of a vehicle, so this thread is my life line for tuning my ST in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I guess I mean this thread is the mean to calm my anxiety about not being able to upgrade the ST that is.
Dude you'll be able to upgrade it for sure. Cobb is already planning to support the platform which is huge. It's just a question of finding the weaknesses and addressing them before boom! At least Ford has already called out the turbo and the fuel system as potential limitations.
 

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Hey Rev - as FaST mentions in his post above yours, and with your knowledge of the 2.0 EcoBoost block, can the internals handle the stresses that aftermarket power upgrades will undoubtedly place on it. Matthias Ton mentions turbo's and fuel delivery, but I wonder about cams, lifters, main bearings, etc. :?:
From the photos that I have seen, and knowledge of the metallurgy of the internals, It looks like the power limit is going to be about 325 HP without having to change rotating parts.
 

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Dude you'll be able to upgrade it for sure. Cobb is already planning to support the platform which is huge. It's just a question of finding the weaknesses and addressing them before boom! At least Ford has already called out the turbo and the fuel system as potential limitations.
Oh ok good deal. I am wondering what it will cost me to get to 300 safely though. I guess we will see.
 
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