[Americarsftw]

I'm doing my best to be patient until the ST comes out. I have no problem waiting.

Some fears I have are that it is a first year car (granted the focus has done well overseas) and there may be issues I can't stand that are fixed in the 2014 model year.

Short rev-range. Max is 7k rpm. I really like cars I can wind out. This is something I would need to experience on a test-drive. I think it won't even be an issue. There appears to be such a nice broad torque-band.

Lack of AWD. I'm not someone that needs AWD in the snow. Defensive driving skill and tires has kept me accident free in snowstorms for over 16yrs. AWD for me is more of an issue of eliminating torque steer and handling (provided there is no massive understeer.) I also prefer mechanical LSD.

I'm torn between having something rugged like a WRX that I can drive on beaches or drive on some bumpy trails versus the ST with the awesome interior and electronics (I'm a gadget geek.)

Concerns about the WRX is if I'm going to be pissed next year when they unveil the 2013 WRX that has parted from the Impreza platform. The current poor gas mileage. Bland interior. Ugly.

I know this is a Ford forum but I find the users on here to be more open-minded. If I ask on the WRX forums people are going to say "WRX, AWD, and it's a Subaru. :xxx: Ford their cars suck." Yeah I've already asked. I almost don't want a WRX because i don't want to be associated with that community of owners but in the end I want to buy the car I enjoy the most. :xxx: what other people think. I don't buy cars to impress anyone. It's all about the driving experience for me.

Is there anything I may not be taking into consideration? I'm working really hard and it's about time I treat myself to buying a new car rather than some cheap monthly payment econobox lease.

Any suggestions?

Thankyou


**Edited: Also, I have another 8,000 miles on my lease so I need to hop into something before 2013.

 

[ST?]

Really the only advantage I can see for the WRX is AWD launches and snow performance. From the sounds of it, the ST outperforms the WRX in virtually all categories except 0-60. It will get better mileage and the interior is nicer.

 

[jackamick]

I considered a WRX for a bit, but the mileage and styling (not a fan of the hood scoop) were just not for me. I'm pretty confident in Ford's ability to make this car pretty bug-less, it seems like they've put a lot of work into it, and I'd rather buy a brand new car than a car that hasn't really changed in the last few years (same reason I didn't want to get a GTI, since the mk7 is coming next year).

 

[Chad]

I know this is a Ford forum but I find the users on here to be more open-minded. If I ask on the WRX forums people are going to say "WRX, AWD, and it's a Subaru. :xxx: Ford their cars suck." Yeah I've already asked. I almost don't want a WRX because i don't want to be associated with that community of owners but in the end I want to buy the car I enjoy the most. :xxx: what other people think. I don't buy cars to impress anyone. It's all about the driving experience for me.

I know what you mean, its hard to get good response. The WRX is a great little car, its been out there for years. Plus they have the STi ect. What turns me off is the price tag, interior, and fuel economy. When deciding to go with Focus ST it seemed logical because of the refinement, not knowing the fuel mileage was ok because it couldn't be worse than the Explorer.

I am in a similar situation with my lease, which does end in 2014, but I'd like to be in another car by that time. But it really seems like you know what you want already. Your words are geared towards the ST, am I wrong?

lol, plus I'd never drive a WRX on a beach.

 

[Brandon]

Ugh, I know how you feel with this. Many of the cars I want don't come out until next year, and many cars now require too many compromises. Here's how I view things:

The ST is the car you want if you prefer refinement, interior quality, solid gas mileage, and decent performance. If this is your daily driver and you drive long distances on a semi-regular basis, the Focus ST is going to be by far the superior choice: more comfortable and better gas mileage (probably quieter too on the highway).

The WRX is the car you want if powertrain superiority trumps refinement. More power, more speed, more wheel driven. The interior of the WRX is garbage, the electronics suck, and the exterior is somewhat ridiculous looking (and the ST is kind of ridiculous looking too, but not as bad if you can ignore the spoiler).

The problem is the WRX revealed next year as a 2014 car (and likely released next year) will be better than the current WRX in every conceivable way. The interior will be better, gas mileage will be better, performance will probably remain the same (but with some added intelligence to make it slightly more capable and forgiving), more refinement. You only need to look at the new Impreza and Legacy to see that while Subaru is stepping up its interior game, it will still fall short of the interior of the Focus ST. So again, if interior quality, toys, and refinement are important to you, you can't go wrong with the ST. If AWD and extra speed is important, then the WRX (and preferably the new one if you can somehow hold off until then).

The true "mix" of these two cars is the much more expensive Golf R: AWD, refined, better interior than the WRX (but just short of the ST), more attractive exterior. But again, more expensive. This is where I would typically recommend a used car, but used car prices right now are miserable, and for the first time in a long while, even I'm forgoing that BS for a new car.

It's a tough decision. Even though I live in the snowbelt, I'd recommend the ST, but I'm coming from an E90 BMW 3 series and a 08 Infiniti G35x, so refinement and interior quality matter a lot to me. I'd get into the WRX, and I would hate every second I wasn't on a curvy road... and considering I do a lot of highway driving, that would mean a lot of hate. I've researched the hell out of a lot of cars, and really if I were to buy a car this year, it would come down to this: buy a used CPO BMW/Audi/Cadillac CTS that's 3 years old for $30k or less, or get a ST for a few grand cheaper and it's brand new with full warranty. Currently the only other car I'd consider buying new is a GTI because of the DSG, but it lacks a few of the options I want in a car, and the ride is a bit harsh on Wisconsin roads for me.

In my perfect world, the ST would come with a AWD + dual clutch transmission option. But it doesn't. The only car coming out that isn't terrible with such a setup is the new Audi A3, which launches in the US next year. I'm not sure I want to wait that long, let alone spend that kind of money on a new car with such a spartan interior.

 

[MacAttack]

Wait and test drive the ST. If the reviews are to be believed, it sounds like your worries are accounted for already.


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[ST?]

Just another thought... Since the WRX is splitting from the Imprezza, the price is most likely going to increase by a significant amount since parts sharing will be reduced on the next model.

 

[BadWolf]

Really, as is with any purchase. It's up to you. Test drive the ST and go from there. You know what you want in a car and what you can live with. Were you able to get into the performance academy? (or is there one near you?)

IMO its unfair to compare the two (or the ST to anything for that matter) before most of us on here have never driven, sat in or even seen an ST in person. Sure we have info and limited stats on the car...but that dosnt mean anyone of us will actually like it until we have felt and driven it in person.

 

[Brandon]

Just another thought... Since the WRX is splitting from the Imprezza, the price is most likely going to increase by a significant amount since parts sharing will be reduced on the next model.

I highly doubt they'll significantly raise the WRX price unless they're bringing the entire car upmarket. It sells in low numbers as is, raising the price would hurt that even more.

 

[Americarsftw]

Yes I am more geared towards the ST. It can't hurt to ask. I appreciate everyone's input. I want to get most of my research down to the point where all I need is the test drive. In the fall things get hectic and I don't want to overlook anything. I want to drive off the lot with my ST knowing I did everything I could to make sure it's the right car for me so I have absolutely no regrets so I can fully enjoy my first brand-new car.

The BRZ was going to be my first new car. I am glad I cancelled my preorder when it arrived. I was making too many sacrifices on practicality. I try as hard as I can to prove a car is right for me and I put just as much effort into proving it is wrong for me and I go from there.

I know what you mean, its hard to get good response. The WRX is a great little car, its been out there for years. Plus they have the STi ect. What turns me off is the price tag, interior, and fuel economy. When deciding to go with Focus ST it seemed logical because of the refinement, not knowing the fuel mileage was ok because it couldn't be worse than the Explorer.

I am in a similar situation with my lease, which does end in 2014, but I'd like to be in another car by that time. But it really seems like you know what you want already. Your words are geared towards the ST, am I wrong?

lol, plus I'd never drive a WRX on a beach.

 

[Americarsftw]

There is one near me where the PATS play. It was already full by the time I heard about it. I am sure I can find a car show to at least see one in person over the next few months. I hope I love the test drive and the only concern I have left is ST2 w/two tone blue seating or ST3 . Colorwise I'm leaning towards Oxford white and may get wheels that are like dark blue or something that matches the blue on the st2 recaros if I don't go ST3

Really, as is with any purchase. It's up to you. Test drive the ST and go from there. You know what you want in a car and what you can live with. We're you able to get into the performance academy? (or is there one near you?)

IMO its unfair to compare the two (or the ST to anything for that matter) before most of us on here have never driven, sat in or even seen an ST in person. Sure we have info and limited stats on the car...but that dosnt mean anyone of us will actually like it until we have felt and driven it in person.

 

[Americarsftw]

+1. Now I hope we get more U.S. reviews soon :yay:

Wait and test drive the ST. If the reviews are to be believed, it sounds like your worries are accounted for already.


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[BadWolf]

There is one near me where the PATS play. It was already full by the time I heard about it. I am sure I can find a car show to at least see one in person over the next few months. I hope I love the test drive and the only concern I have left is ST2 w/two tone blue seating or ST3 . Colorwise I'm leaning towards Oxford white and may get wheels that are like dark blue or something that matches the blue on the st2 recaros if I don't go ST3

I would contact Ford and let them know you are seriously considering an ST but cannot make a decision until you drive one. Maybe they can squeeze you into the event? It's worth a shot!

 

[Brandon]

There is one near me where the PATS play. It was already full by the time I heard about it. I am sure I can find a car show to at least see one in person over the next few months. I hope I love the test drive and the only concern I have left is ST2 w/two tone blue seating or ST3 . Colorwise I'm leaning towards Oxford white and may get wheels that are like dark blue or something that matches the blue on the st2 recaros if I don't go ST3

ST3 is a no brainer if you want the best interior and most options. I wouldn't even consider ST2.

 

[faST]

I owned a 2011 WRX for 1 year and pretty much hopped the tuning bandwagon, forums, and frequent modding etc. Yes, it was fun, but it was an expensive way to improve a car that should've been good to begin with (almost 30 grand). My personal opinion is that extensive modding is acceptable on a hobby car or used car, not your daily driver. After engine work and tuning, I was about to start on the suspension...getting it to handle the way I wanted. I realized I bought the wrong car....it should have been this good to start with. So I sold it before I dug myself into a deeper ditch.

Some fears I have are that it is a first year car (granted the focus has done well overseas) and there may be issues I can't stand that are fixed in the 2014 model year.

The ST is not really a first model year since 85% of the car is the same as the 2012 Focus.

Short rev-range. Max is 7k rpm. I really like cars I can wind out. This is something I would need to experience on a test-drive. I think it won't even be an issue. There appears to be such a nice broad torque-band.

The WRX redline is 6500 rpm...not much of a revver either. Redline may go up with the smaller displacement future engine (the BRZ's is 7400 RPM, but no turbo), but typically flat-4s do not rev.

AWD for me is more of an issue of eliminating torque steer and handling (provided there is no massive understeer.) I also prefer mechanical LSD.

Do you prefer a mechanical LSD for performance or to pull yourself out of a ditch?

WRX = Pull your car out of a ditch LSD

Most people assume AWD means mechanical LSD. The WRX has one viscous locking center differential which splits the power front and rear, 50/50. Full-lock occurs when both "axles" are slipping...thereby locking both axles at the same speed (handling nightmare). The system relies on braking through "VDC" to send power side-to-side. In my opinion, the VDC saps power significantly when slipping occurs (i.e. it is not for performance driving). The design of the WRX AWD system lends more towards safety than performance. Yes, in a straight line a WRX will put down the power better than your average 2WD car....but thats about it.

STi = Performance enabling LSD

The STi has 2 differentials, helical up-front and torsion in the rear. The torsion allows the output shafts to receive different amounts of torque, which translates better to putting power down and turning the car at the same time. This is a true LSD and is what rally cars use.

I'm torn between having something rugged like a WRX that I can drive on beaches or drive on some bumpy trails versus the ST with the awesome interior and electronics (I'm a gadget geek.)

You assume that the WRX is a "rally" car, when its more similar to a regular Impreza. The STi has the more durable suspension, drivetrain, and rally car DNA.

The front suspension as an example:

Impreza: MacPherson type struts, steel lower L arms
WRX: MacPherson type struts, steel lower L arms
STI: Forged aluminum alloy lower L-arms, inverted struts, cross member stiffener (STI unique components)

Any suggestions?

Good things come to those who wait. There will always be a better car and there is always one in the works. Get something that fits your needs.

Also, I have another 8,000 miles on my lease so I need to hop into something before 2013.[/QUOTE]

 

[jackamick]

The front suspension as an example:

Impreza: MacPherson type struts, steel lower L arms
WRX: MacPherson type struts, steel lower L arms
STI: Forged aluminum alloy lower L-arms, inverted struts, cross member stiffener (STI unique components)

And for the record, the ST also uses MacPherson struts. (right?)

I would contact Ford and let them know you are seriously considering an ST but cannot make a decision until you drive one. Maybe they can squeeze you into the event? It's worth a shot!

Ya, that might be an idea. If they saved spots for people with pre-orders, maybe they'll have an open spot for people strongly considering a preorder. Or you could just show up to see it?

OR, I could take a 10am spot for pre-orderers, and you could take my spot. When I signed up I didn't have my car ordered. Just mention that when you contact them .

 

[Americarsftw]

Thankyou so much for the useful info. When I think of what I like about the WRX it is images of doing the occasional dirt/gravel off-roading. Apparantly, my imagination is not accurate. I did have the "rally" associated with this car.

I think VW GTI are ugly, bland exterior, high seating position, too quiet, and MS3 feels more economy than my 2011 Civic Si which is leased, so I'm seriously looking forward to the ST.

Damn man, September at the earliest. Oh well, I waited long enough for the BRZ before cancelling. A few more months won't kill me. Maybe I'll be able to put more than a $7500 down-payment. $10,000 would be nice.

I owned a 2011 WRX for 1 year and pretty much hopped the tuning bandwagon, forums, and frequent modding etc. Yes, it was fun, but it was an expensive way to improve a car that should've been good to begin with (almost 30 grand). My personal opinion is that extensive modding is acceptable on a hobby car or used car, not your daily driver. After engine work and tuning, I was about to start on the suspension...getting it to handle the way I wanted. I realized I bought the wrong car....it should have been this good to start with. So I sold it before I dug myself into a deeper ditch.



The ST is not really a first model year since 85% of the car is the same as the 2012 Focus.



The WRX redline is 6500 rpm...not much of a revver either. Redline may go up with the smaller displacement future engine (the BRZ's is 7400 RPM, but no turbo), but typically flat-4s do not rev.



Do you prefer a mechanical LSD for performance or to pull yourself out of a ditch?

WRX = Pull your car out of a ditch LSD

Most people assume AWD means mechanical LSD. The WRX has one viscous locking center differential which splits the power front and rear, 50/50. Full-lock occurs when both "axles" are slipping...thereby locking both axles at the same speed (handling nightmare). The system relies on braking through "VDC" to send power side-to-side. In my opinion, the VDC saps power significantly when slipping occurs (i.e. it is not for performance driving). The design of the WRX AWD system lends more towards safety than performance. Yes, in a straight line a WRX will put down the power better than your average 2WD car....but thats about it.

STi = Performance enabling LSD

The STi has 2 differentials, helical up-front and torsion in the rear. The torsion allows the output shafts to receive different amounts of torque, which translates better to putting power down and turning the car at the same time. This is a true LSD and is what rally cars use.



You assume that the WRX is a "rally" car, when its more similar to a regular Impreza. The STi has the more durable suspension, drivetrain, and rally car DNA.

The front suspension as an example:

Impreza: MacPherson type struts, steel lower L arms
WRX: MacPherson type struts, steel lower L arms
STI: Forged aluminum alloy lower L-arms, inverted struts, cross member stiffener (STI unique components)



Good things come to those who wait. There will always be a better car and there is always one in the works. Get something that fits your needs.

Also, I have another 8,000 miles on my lease so I need to hop into something before 2013.

[/QUOTE]

 

[dgc333]

Just a quick comment regarding taking a WRX off road on a beach.

I have been driving on the beach for 20 years the most common vehicle to see stuck is a Subaru. Outbacks and Foresters just don't have the ground clearance to not get hung up and stuck. The WRX will be worse since it has even less. It is a shame that Subaru try's to pass them off as an off road vehicle.

 

[Americarsftw]

Okay guys. I wrote a very good email to the ST Performance Academy. Crossing my fingers. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Shomare]

My guess is you rev your cars out of necessity. It won't be necessary to rev the ST and we'll all get use to that. Also, ias you noted, it's not exactly a first year run as many of the components are carried over form the Focus lineup.

Where are you going to find another forum with such great folks to hang out with!

Worth the wait IMO