[Ken Bury]

Did anyone happen to catch the Speed broadcast of the Grand-Am race at IMS? I haven't watched the whole thing yet but when I turned it off both ST-Rs were running close to last and laps down..... The post race analysis was 'we don't know whether the ST-R problem was mechanical (LSD) or electronic'. Hardware guys blaming the software guys and vice-versa... Luv it.

It was interesting that it was said that some of the cars were having problems with the heat and because the electronics is basically stock it was pulling the power back to compensate (BMWs?)

So much for my diversionary therapy for ST3 delay syndrome.

 

[JdubST13]

Looks like one of the first mods for me will be a better intercooler!

 

[Rev.Hammer]

May I ask for a better definition of ; "problems with heat"

 

[ATX Eric]

I can't speak to everything that happened, but they were definitely having issues and they knew it enough to yield the line to other racers several times in situations where they (especially Gue) wouldn't dare do so normally.

Not sure on the overheating, but I can speak to at least one Bimmer having mechanical issues that may/may not have been related to heat as a secondary cause, but weren't electronics-related.

Can't say more about the Ford.

 

[Frankenbike]

Overheating is a relatively straightforward problem to solve. Higher volume/pressure water pump, radiator with more surface area and water capacity, higher speed radiator fans. Since the ST-Rs already supposedly have an oil cooler, fans on that would help too if it doesn't already have them (it's a very old mod, adding fans to oil coolers). Intercoolers are about cooling air going into the engine to get more air in, and are probably not a factor in engine heat, except that they cause more of it when they function properly.

 

[ATX Eric]

Based on Ken's OP, I thought it sounded like a diff problem. Or a brake problem as associated with the TVS. Dunno.

I wish more Americans liked road racing, because the GA series is pretty awesome. A ton of lead changes, never know quite who'll podium. Makes it fun to watch. Plus the cars all look remarkably similar to their road-going counterparts, so you're able to root for you favorite maker or model without having to double-check that you've got the right car, or use the number.

 

[Unreal]

I love Grand-Am racing! I think it is by far the most interesting. The only thing I don't like about the Rolex Series is that TV coverage spends too much time covering the Daytona Prototypes. I definitely prefer watching the GT cars over the DP cars.

 

[Ken Bury]

I should have quoted the original. I interpreted the mechanical issue as LSD because Multimatic did design and build one for the ST-R. From what I understand the rest of the car's electronics is close to stock. All the cars have anti-lock brakes and all that. So if something got out of whack then the car's management system may have been trying to 'fix' the problem by lowering the power. Now I have to go back and watch the race again to confirm the race commentary but I'm pretty sure they were talking about one of the BMW team's suspected problem with heat affecting the electronics and therefore the power.


In the ST class, Multimatic Motorsports Nos. 15 and 16 Ford Focus ST-R cars both faced a gremlin that Gunnar Jeannette described as, "Either the cars' mechanical side was messing with the (Electronic Management System) or the EMS was messing with the mechanical. Either way, we were down between 15- and 20-percent on power . . . and we've got no clue."

The two cars finished 8 and 27 laps down to the race winner.

 

[Rev.Hammer]

I LOVE road racing, rally, Rally Cross, etc. NASCAR has bored me to TEARS since the early 70's.

I do remember making point about that exhaust exit path going through the water jacket causing high performance and racing issues and how many aux coolers and fans will be necessary. I just hope that we can overcome it with enough skill to relegate it to a non issue.

 

[oaxa]

Here's a repost of the article Unreal just posted
Grand-Am News - articles | Focus ST-R To Start 5th At Barber | The Official Site of Ford Racing | Racing.Ford.com

 

[ATX Eric]

I LOVE road racing, rally, Rally Cross, etc. NASCAR has bored me to TEARS since the early 70's.

I do remember making point about that exhaust exit path going through the water jacket causing high performance and racing issues and how many aux coolers and fans will be necessary. I just hope that we can overcome it with enough skill to relegate it to a non issue.

Yes you did. And this thread reminded me of that as well. But it seems unlikely since it hasn't seemed to have reared its head until this point. Perhaps it was warm there, but it rained like mad and dropped the temp and the ambient helps to a point, but during a race, I bet the percentage swing on engine/oil/coolant temps must be marginal, especially with only a 10-20F difference in ambient.

I'm speculating (we all are), but I can't imagine that's the issue.

 

[ATX Eric]

Here's a repost of the article Unreal just posted
Grand-Am News - articles | Focus ST-R To Start 5th At Barber | The Official Site of Ford Racing | Racing.Ford.com

Wait. That was about Barber, yes? Not Indy. :?:

Unless you're highlighting the diff. Holt's take is fairly accurate regarding the diff and street use. I continue to be amazed by complaints of diffs on hot hatch (and other) forums as if they somehow miraculously make a car better on the street. I have seen how much effort it takes to really make a diff worth it on a road course, and its quite a bit. Usually at least R-compound tires, and a very good driver. At that point, you've got a problem. Before that, its just talk/marketing/self-inflation.

Not to say a diff doesn't improve performance. Just that it isn't significant until you've pushed the car to pretty extreme levels that most sane people won't see on the street (and that includes a lot of pro racers that know better).

 

[oaxa]

Point I was trying to make here is that this LSD is still in development.

 

[ATX Eric]

Point I was trying to make here is that this LSD is still in development.

Its racing. Everything is always in development.

 

[Ken Bury]

Arm chair crew chief here spouting as much speculation and hearsay as the next arm chair crew chief and having fun doing it. I originally brought up the LSD thing because I may track the car. I've got a friend who tracks his cars that start with M and he has offered to introduce me to the track days concept. By following what they are doing in Grand-Am I figured I would be somewhat aware of what issues I may come across. I'm with Eric, unless you decide to use the car in a bank heists or other illegal behavior then the car should be well within its' capability. Right now, the only on road scenario where I will expect the car to perform is passing a few cars (or more) that have got stuck behind a motorhome going up a hill in the Appalachians. Now I'm going relax and enjoy what I imagine that unobstructed view is going to look like.

 

[ATX Eric]

Arm chair crew chief here spouting as much speculation and hearsay as the next arm chair crew chief and having fun doing it. I originally brought up the LSD thing because I may track the car. I've got a friend who tracks his cars that start with M and he has offered to introduce me to the track days concept. By following what they are doing in Grand-Am I figured I would be somewhat aware of what issues I may come across. I'm with Eric, unless you decide to use the car in a bank heists or other illegal behavior then the car should be well within its' capability. Right now, the only on road scenario where I will expect the car to perform is passing a few cars (or more) that have got stuck behind a motorhome going up a hill in the Appalachians. Now I'm going relax and enjoy what I imagine that unobstructed view is going to look like.

Ken,

If you ever have any questions about HPDE or other track events, feel free to PM me for info and/or my personal contact info. I participated and ran events for years. Its incredibly addictive and a ton of fun.

 

[MDeCillis]

I thought I saw a highlight on Speed Sunday afternoon that showed one of the ST-R's flipping over a few times. I tried to find more info online, but could not. Not sure if it was old footage or if it wasn't even an ST-R. LOL!

 

[Ken Bury]

Ken,

If you ever have any questions about HPDE or other track events, feel free to PM me for info and/or my personal contact info. I participated and ran events for years. Its incredibly addictive and a ton of fun.

Eric, I appreciate that. Thanks.

 

[02_svt_guy]

Ken,

If you ever have any questions about HPDE or other track events, feel free to PM me for info and/or my personal contact info. I participated and ran events for years. Its incredibly addictive and a ton of fun.

Track days are amazing and very addictive. Not to mention hard on your car but so worth it to HOON the way it was ment to be HOONED.

I think cars like the ST and the MS3 are perfect track day cars for the majority of the public. I have seen way to many mid life crisis guys take their new Porsche/vette/bmw and slide it off the track or worse into a barrier.


I have lapped at Mosport International Raceway and that is 1 fast, demanding and unforgiving track.

Mosport International Raceway

 

[Unreal]

I thought I saw a highlight on Speed Sunday afternoon that showed one of the ST-R's flipping over a few times. I tried to find more info online, but could not. Not sure if it was old footage or if it wasn't even an ST-R. LOL!

I believe this is the worst crash the Multimatic team has had, and maybe what you were thinking, but it did not flip...