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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone heard what kind of horsepower that they're getting out of the ST-R? Seems like they wouldn't put things like bigger radiators or oil coolers on it unless it was making more power than the stock ST is made to take.
 

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Has anyone heard what kind of horsepower that they're getting out of the ST-R? Seems like they wouldn't put things like bigger radiators or oil coolers on it unless it was making more power than the stock ST is made to take.
The radiator and oil cooler are mainly for keeping the engine/turbo at a reasonable temperatures when running hard on the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Still, tuner class. They're not running with stock horsepower, so what are they getting?

I think Tanner Foust has said that his Fiesta puts out around 500, non streetable horsepower. No one buys a turnkey racecar to get stock street horsepower.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, I KNOW they're delivered with the same power. Sort of...there's no nod to the EPA in racing. But that level of power isn't nearly competitive against the cars they're racing against (MS3s, BMW328is, etc). Foust's car wasn't delivered with 500hp either.

There is absolutely no way you can get me to believe any ST-R on the track isn't putting out more horsepower. The reason I ask about this, is that for the people who are planning on getting more out of their ST, knowing what pro-racers get out of the same engine would hint at your upper limits in tuning. Not sure what the rules are about swapping out bigger bore turbos/manifolds in the classes they're entering the ST-R in.

STN peeps will probably be getting 265hp within a month of the car's delivery. Pretty sure on the ST-R, Ford has every interest in helping their customers achieve 300+, just as R&D for the future RS. The point of having the ST-R is as an advertisement to sell the ST to the public, and a 4th place finish is not how you do that. Since they've gone up from <15th place, it's probably partly due to squeezing out more ponies.
 

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Yes, I KNOW they're delivered with the same power. Sort of...there's no nod to the EPA in racing. But that level of power isn't nearly competitive against the cars they're racing against (MS3s, BMW328is, etc). Foust's car wasn't delivered with 500hp either.

There is absolutely no way you can get me to believe any ST-R on the track isn't putting out more horsepower. The reason I ask about this, is that for the people who are planning on getting more out of their ST, knowing what pro-racers get out of the same engine would hint at your upper limits in tuning. Not sure what the rules are about swapping out bigger bore turbos/manifolds in the classes they're entering the ST-R in.

STN peeps will probably be getting 265hp within a month of the car's delivery. Pretty sure on the ST-R, Ford has every interest in helping their customers achieve 300+, just as R&D for the future RS. The point of having the ST-R is as an advertisement to sell the ST to the public, and a 4th place finish is not how you do that. Since they've gone up from <15th place, it's probably partly due to squeezing out more ponies.
I haven't read the rules lately, but they aren't going to push beyond the class limits, which are pretty far below 300hp stock. I'd believe 250hp versus the other cars in their class. Those 328s are about 240 horse from the factory. They are definitely tweaked, but not to the point where they're making 300hp. Don't believe that's the case.

And as much as a 4th-place finish isn't a nice selling point, neither is a tech protest dissection that ends in a confirmation. In fact, that's MUCH worse from a PR perspective. The point is to win, not cheat (not that using everything within the rules isn't being done).

If you look, the competitive cars in the class kind of bounce all over the place, and mechanical failures, driver error, crashes, and strategy (or frustrations) under yellow flags play a much larger role than power within the class most of the time.

You don't have to believe that, but I happen to be very close to this series, and this class of this series. Again, they may be making a touch more power, but these aren't 500hp, or even 300hp, monsters out there. And suspension and sustained speed at most of the tracks is considerably more important than raw power. Its why MX-5 times are competitive and comparable. Even from the MX-5 cup at some races!

edit: I should add that I could be completely wrong. But based on the information I am privy to, I think I'm pretty close.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm pretty certain that meeting EPA exhaust regs alone is worth 15 horsepower. With all the noise reduction boxes and insulation removed, there's more room in the engine compartment for a better intercooler (I assume they use an intercooler). Good for another 5 to 10 horsepower. All that is nothing but freeing the car from smog regs, noise regs and taking advantage of added space to get the intake temps down a bit more. They can probably use more horsepower friendly cams and certainly more aggressive timing of both the valves and spark with racing fuel.

275hp would be a very conservative figure.

Is there only one ST-R being raced? Or one team? Has anyone not in Ford bought one?
 

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Still, tuner class. They're not running with stock horsepower, so what are they getting?

I think Tanner Foust has said that his Fiesta puts out around 500, non streetable horsepower. No one buys a turnkey racecar to get stock street horsepower.
I'd guess 350hp crank
 

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I'm pretty certain that meeting EPA exhaust regs alone is worth 15 horsepower. With all the noise reduction boxes and insulation removed, there's more room in the engine compartment for a better intercooler (I assume they use an intercooler). Good for another 5 to 10 horsepower. All that is nothing but freeing the car from smog regs, noise regs and taking advantage of added space to get the intake temps down a bit more. They can probably use more horsepower friendly cams and certainly more aggressive timing of both the valves and spark with racing fuel.

275hp would be a very conservative figure.

Is there only one ST-R being raced? Or one team? Has anyone not in Ford bought one?
Yes. One team. And although all that COULD be done, there are restrictions that allow much of it FROM being done, was my point. The idea is to maintain an even playing field, within reason.

FWIW, I don't necessarily think 275hp is out of the question.
 

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So there it is. 250hp. Again, it isn't about the horsepower in ST. It's about the laundry list of other tech/suspension goodies included here. In particular the lighter weight, better brakes, and better/tweaked suspension.

Racecar does not always = lots of power. It'll always be curbed to the class. And this is the bottom class of GrandAm. Still impressive machines, but not LeMans prototypes, by any stretch.
 

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I can dream can't I?
lol. Suppose so. The truth is that the majority of the field here are privateers. They have money, but they don't throw it away, and there are few factory supported teams. As far as racing budgets go, these are *relatively* small. WAY bigger than most of us can likely afford (or at least sustain), but we're still talking about a lot of "off-the-shelf" parts or well-known aftermarket 3P solutions. Stuff that doesn't cost a ton when replaced.

So there is an interest in keeping power down for simple cost considerations (lack of mechanical wear) as well.

Its supposed to be an "entry level" class. Most of the drivers are unpaid and paying their own way, or partnered up with someone who has financed them to help them (the financier) progress as a driver.
 

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So there it is. 250hp. Again, it isn't about the horsepower in ST. It's about the laundry list of other tech/suspension goodies included here. In particular the lighter weight, better brakes, and better/tweaked suspension.

Racecar does not always = lots of power. It'll always be curbed to the class. And this is the bottom class of GrandAm. Still impressive machines, but not LeMans prototypes, by any stretch.


TRUE! I am sure they took out a LOT of weight with all of the interior and such stuff. As far as a race car having a LOT of horsepower? NAH! Remember the Morris Minor ( later Mini-Cooper ) of 60's? Not much on power but they HUGELY embarrassed more powerful cars because the went like atomic powered go-karts!
 

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TRUE! I am sure they took out a LOT of weight with all of the interior and such stuff. As far as a race car having a LOT of horsepower? NAH! Remember the Morris Minor ( later Mini-Cooper ) of 60's? Not much on power but they HUGELY embarrased more power care because the went like atomic powered go-karts!
:)

I've got a '66 Cooper S with a 1380 in there at work. It is truly amazing how well these things STILL handle for an almost 50-year-old car.

MX-5s also have a history of being giant killers, as well as Lotus.
 
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